Sainer

And when did you and Bezt start Etam Cru?
Originally Bezt was doing Etam before we met. When we met at school and did our first wall, which was only letters, we realized it worked well and right away wanted to give our crew a name. We couldn't think of one and since Bezt was already spraying Etam with another friend who wasn't active anymore, we just took that. It was short, easy to say and in Polish, it means something like, "Whatever," or, "Forget about it." We liked the simple meaning and how it's easy to pronounce outside Poland. 

What are the pros or cons of working together versus working alone?
I really like to work with someone because you get to learn a lot when making compromises. And before painting, I was playing football for almost 10 years, so I was used to working in a team. In the classic art world, there are really not that many collaborations. I guess it's about ego and about proving that you are the best. Graffiti has this positive view towards collaborating. When you collaborate, you have to think of the other person and agree on things, so we would mostly split it up and each would do a different part. Collaborating is about compromises, so sometimes you have to give up your own ideas, and that can lead toward learning something new. 

You both always seemed like distinct individuals, not just a blend of two artists.
When we started, we were painting in totally different styles. We decided that when we worked together, it would be cool if people couldn't recognize who did a certain part of the wall. It was cool until we started painting similarly as individual studio artists. Now, it would be really great to find our individual, different styles, and come back to working together, because it's much more fun to try and combine different elements. 

How did it feel to get such international exposure and get to travel around the world?
I was really enjoying it at first. For us, it was living the dream. When we started painting bigger stuff, we thought how cool it would be to meet some of the bigger guys. But I didn't expect we'd meet them, let alone paint with them. In Poland, we have this complex of feeling lesser in value, I guess, still because of communism. We were always following another culture, and, in the 1990s, American culture was the coolest thing. Even in graffiti, we always followed things from Western Europe or US, thinking we're behind it or we can't be as good. I don’t know, there is this kind of mentality that people don't believe when you are trying to think bigger or differently. You can find it everywhere, starting from primary school until the art academy. But that’s a topic for a whole other interview, I guess. 

What is the situation with you and Bezt at the moment?
This year we are doing solo shows, separately, and each one is totally focused on that. The situation is cool—we are still really good friends, we're in touch regularly, we just travel less together. It's also because each of us has his own life and we are not living in the same city anymore. But when we do see each other, it seems that nothing changed: same stupid jokes and same way of thinking about situations. It all happened naturally. There was no fight or anything. If there is a chance to manage traveling together, we are doing it, and if not, we are doing solo walls. When we were studying together, we spent 3 to 4 years seeing each other 24/7 at school, graffiti jams, painting murals, etc. Now we just prefer to do fewer murals and focus more on the studio time. So, that’s the situation. We prefer to keep it natural, rather than trying to work together all the time just because we are known as Etam.

Do you have any major artistic influences?
I follow a lot of people doing contemporary urban or street art, but mostly I'm enjoying classic painters, both Polish and international ones. I discovered so many new great artists on Instagram, sometimes it feels like I'm spending too much time there. It motivates me to see all the great works that other people are doing. Also, music is a big influence for me. 

You were telling me a while ago that your murals don't really have a story or meaning behind them. Is that still the case?
Some of them have some basic story behind it, but mostly I'm focused on the abstract composition of the elements. The first thing I'm planning is the composition and the colors, and from there I add elements, characters and such. At the beginning, we were trying to have a story for every mural, but then I realized that symbols can be read totally different in different places. Also, there are so many little details and ways of reading an image, that if I tell the story, I might destroy the ways to enjoy the work. So, for me, it's more about the composition. If I wanted to tell a story maybe I'd just write a book. 

Since we're talking about this—what is your opinion on the current street art scene?
Sometimes I have a feeling it's too much. There is no quality control. A couple of years ago, people were saying, "It would be great if the whole city is painted." Now that this is happening, it's just too much. Social media changed it as well. You don’t need a gallery or agents to promote your work because you can do it by yourself. The sad part is that sometimes the quality level of art doesn’t follow the amount of self-promotion. This happened with music, cinematography, everything, not just street art. “Street art “ these days seems to be like a hashtag to get attention. 

And I don't even like to call it "street art" because, for me, that was small interventions, stencils and stickers years back. I think muralism is much better word. In a way, it's great, because it enables people like myself to do what we do, meet each other, travel. Personally, I'm focused on my own work and I prefer to see myself as a painter and muralist. I love painting murals and I wouldn't consider stopping because of too many things going on.